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The Sad Truth About Relationships
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laura
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:08 pm    Post subject: The Sad Truth About Relationships Reply with quote

May have caught this on Digg or Reddit already, but in case you haven't:

The Sad Truth About Relationships
http://www.fliggo.com/video/NTtenBNg

I really like it.

But...I don't see what's so sad about it, haha... so what if people (i.e. a member of the opposite sex, then your kids, then your grandkids) become more important than ambitions and traveling the world? People are all we really have in the end. I can't wait (though I will) to have a family. (A close network of friends is just as sufficient if that's not your style.)

It's hardly an either/or though... you can have a house AND write a book if you want.

I just don't see this as particularly sad. A lot of people will live this way and some people won't. I don't view one path as inherently nobler or happier than the other. But I suppose that's just cause I'm some girl in her almost mid to late 20's, hehe.

Anyways, for some reason, I'm super curious about who agrees or disagrees with whether or not this is sad.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Love is only a dirty trick played on us to achieve continuation of the species."
--W. Somerset Maugham


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it's sad at all - I think it's overly cynical and bitter. I guess it's also supposed to be amusing, but by the end I just thought that the person behind it had probably had a relationship gone sour or stale, and poured it into this cartoon in the belief that EVERYONE would feel the same way.

If you can't take joy from the people you share your life with, then I think that's very sad - and not in the way this cartoon believes. I admire the craftmanship behind it, but completely disagree with the sentiment.

And I'm someone who thinks travelling is the most overrated activity ever Wink
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Couldn't have said it better myself, Bartley.

I'm sure there are a lot of people who have this attitude (men and women), but the cartoon is pretty simplistic, as though having a significant other and a few kids is the most meaningless existance possible. My parents did that and they still managed to travel to Egypt, take night classes and write books together. This person only sees it as a doomed way of life because of her mypoic perspective on life and the fact that no one will love a bitter old crank.

OR, she's a pregressive feminist who doesn't want to take the usual route with her life that her friends and family have taken, but rather wants to lead a life of unparalelled adventure and intrigue. Fine. See you on Match.com when you're 35. Don't believe me? Read Jillian Straus's book Unhooked Generation: The Truth About Why We're Still Single.

And stop trying to make the rest of us feel shitty about wanting such trivial things in life like a hand to hold, a child to raise and a house to live in.

Me no likey cartoon.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad you guys don't share the sentiment. I felt compelled to bring this here because I read the comments for the cartoon and it depressed people. And I was like -- I wouldn't mind being one of those cartoon characters! Wouldn't be depressing at all!

I actually did find the cartoon to be revealing; I do appreciate it. I just don't have the same apathetic/disappointed attitude that the 'artist' has.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Translation of video: "You just divorced me, but that's OK, because women are stupid, and besides, I'm better than those idiot suburban people anyway." What a conceited, shallow piece of shit.

I wonder: Who's more obnoxious, the dude that wrote this video, or the gal who agreed with the sentiments so much she provided the voice?
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's interesting. This type of attitude belongs to a lot of my peers. Many of my female friends are totally turned off by the idea of married life and kids. They're either freshly graduated and focused on their careers or currently in college. And don't get me wrong -- I think we all deserve the freedom to pursue whatever path we want! But I just don't understand why some people get so disgusted when they think about having a family. It's one thing to choose other stuff over family, but to be so condescending toward those who chose the latter... I just don't get it. Like bringing life into the world is meaningless! From a purely scientific standpoint, it certainly is not.

I can only attribute it to people being extremely selfish these days. And I know I could get slammed for saying that. Obviously you're not selfish BECAUSE you didn't choose to have a family or whatever. But those with the attitude expressed in this cartoon... well, I can't help but think they are. And I also can't help but think they will regret this attitude and continue to bitter and sad until they die.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laura, your friends' stance is not that uncommon. (Funny, I just made a documentary about this very subject). In 2007, the National Cencus Bureau reported that 51% of women in America are living without a spouse. So, they're actually in the majority. Meanwhile, at least 20 million Americans visit a dating web site every day. Women are generally waiting a lot longer to get married. It used to be people would get married and start a family in their 20's, but that's not happening so much anymore. Women are taking time during their 20's to travel, get Masters degrees, play the field, etc.

And I guess they do take that attitude with them, but once they hit their 30's, attitudes change (not just with women either). Speaking as a 35-year-old guy who is on Match.com, I am seeing this first hand. There are so many women out there who have done everything in their 20s that they wanted to do and are now looking for Mr. Perfect. They've seen their idol, Sarah Jessica Parker, win hers on that one HBO show, and now they want their own Mr. Big and will settle for nothing less (now, who sounds bitter?).

Anyway, I mention this to everyone when the topic comes up, but seriously, Jillian Straus's book Unhooked Generation beautifully illustrates and dissects this trend, which is why I interviewed her for my movie. You should get her book. It's a great read.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:42 am    Post subject: having/getting a life Reply with quote

it seems to me that if one perceives these choices as pure evil mediocrity and still chooses them that that is the real self betrayal, but that these choices on their own are no such thing.

...

spectacular adequacy might be an antidote for an allergy to mediocrity, particularly for those who have a natural state of ambiguity...
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spectacular Adequacy. I like that. First sensible thing you've said Smartypants.

I had to give up a friend due to my getting married- he didn't believe in the institution, didn't trust my reasons for doing it, mostly didn't like the idea of sharing my time. Me, best decision I ever made. Is it the flashiest existence? No. But its mine and I'm happy, and we have plenty o' fun. And I could care less about kids, but she wants them, so hey I'll probably have to deal with that down the line. I've managed to train my dog, so that shouldn't be too different.

Of course, sports overall bore the living shit out of me, so I could care less if we have a jock or not. me, I actually just want daughters- if I have a son I'll probably end up raising a transvestite clock-tower sniper- I don't know how to raise a boy- I like comic books and chicks- the two don't go well together. All I need to do is teach my kids how to throw a punch and argue self defense- that's all the sport they'll need in this world.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just the other week, William started to turn his head to look at people when they enter the room, and if it's me or Laura we get the biggest, most joyfully sincere smile I've ever seen. Pretty special to me, but I guess to those guys, that's just soooo much a waste of my life...

Quote:
Of course, sports overall bore the living shit out of me, so I could care less if we have a jock or not. me, I actually just want daughters


Amen. I was really hoping that we would end up with a Scarlett instead of a Will at first, simply because I've always pictured myself with lots of daddy's girls and doing the whole walking down the aisle with them. Of course, I wouldn't change or swap Will for the world now, and there's still time to have a girl and the requisite shotgun that goes with them.

I'm a huge football fan, but couldn't care less if Will hates sports. Same for the 'carry on the family name' notion - that's just so much macho bollocks to me I'm afraid.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm flattered, and no, I don't care for sports.

Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MP Bartley wrote:


Amen. I was really hoping that we would end up with a Scarlett instead of a Will at first, simply because I've always pictured myself with lots of daddy's girls and doing the whole walking down the aisle with them. Of course, I wouldn't change or swap Will for the world now, and there's still time to have a girl and the requisite shotgun that goes with them.


Amanda actually is a bit concerned at the prospect of daughters because she thinks I'm going to be a bit of a demon guardian to them- putting potential gentleman-callers through the wall and then going after their families. But we do have names we like- problem is, the names we like will get huge guffaws from people who can figure out the pattern.

But I run before my horse to market. Gotta have the little angels first, and my side of the family is known for spawning boys.

I'm sure our kids will have a healthy love of sports though- Amanda is the jock of the family, she blew her knees out playing soccer, loves the game, and also has a formidable 1970's Yankees Baseball Card collection that hangs next to my Action Figure Cabinet, along with an autographed Mickey Mantle baseball that sits next to my signed 1st edition of Salems Lot and the Complete Frank Miller Batman Hardcover. Ecclectic couple, we.

Good to hear your little 'un is doing ok though MP. Good to hear from you in fact.

Did I spell Ecclectic right?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't wait to have kids. I think my boyfriend may even want that more than me, haha. Won't be for a long while... but I'm definitely looking forward to it, which is probably why this cartoon struck me.

I just can't imagine not being a mom!!! I'd adopt if I couldn't have them myself. I don't care what they do though. My parents were really good about letting me figure out my own way, so I don't want to have any expectations for my kids before they're born, or after they're born.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kand El wrote:
Spectacular Adequacy. I like that. First sensible thing you've said Smartypants.


Uh oh, sensible...?

Indeed that's new territory for me, but I do so appreciate the rating.

...

As for having kids, etc., when you're 'not allowed to breed' [as in my case] (*) it is surprising at how much that narrows the playing field - for me it's usually 'the guy' who has his sights set on 'pink-upright-prototypes'...

(*fortunately the 'practice makes perfect' mantra was heavily engraved at an appropriate age...)
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I enjoyed what you said about the choice only being evil if you are against it but do it anyway. I'm actually pretty apathetic about having kids, but my wife does want them. So am I wicked? Probably. I like my nieces and nephews, I simply don't feel like I'd be incomplete by not having my own. I think the world is a safer place without me passing on my anxieties to others.

I also never much cared for folks whose sole purpose in life was to have kids- like the marriage, the relationship- it was all secondary, an insidious, result oriented plan soley to propigate- the opposite end of the spectrum I suppose. Their choice, their happieness, I always found myself offended on some level by the calculated, single-mindedness of it.

I'm obsessed with what I can achieve, not what someone else can, so I just want to build something for myself rather than leave it to the next generation. I'd rather create a business than a kid- I think the business is the harder thing to do, especially in this current credit climate. Tp me, kids have always been obstacles to what I want to accomplish, once you have 'em, it ain't your life anymore. but that's just me, and I'm a lunatic.

Of course, I also perceive a difference in having a kid and raising a kid- anyone can have em'- ask a couple million Chinese- its the raising a decent human that's the challenge. that for me is the scary part.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree entirely Kand. Smile As I was trying to get across earlier... I don't see creating a family as any lesser a goal than creating a business or anything else for that matter.

Not that you have to do one or the other, but they're both totally worthy plans to have in life.

Like I said, I've always wanted to have a family and the challenge of raising a kid or two is 10x more appealing to me than pursuing a copy writing career, etc. I hope to do both of course, but I if had to chose one or the other, it'd be a no-brainer. Don't get me wrong, I'd still write in my spare time! Just as I still play piano and sing now, even though I don't major in music.

But that's just a preference. Why should it disgust me if a person cares less about kids and instead, their sole purpose is to make it to the Olympics? It shouldn't. Just like it shouldn't disgust them if I cared less about fame, glory, or making some great contribution to science, art, or whatever, and instead wanted to bring a new human being or two or three into the world. Achieving something so you can feel good about yourself is not any more or less selfless than spreading your genes around.

They're both noble goals, if they're done right and for the right reasons. I or you would not even be here to even have the choice to pursue different paths if someone didn't give birth to us, so I think it's silly to find reproduction and ultimately raising a family a less than noteworthy task.

I also think that only parents, especially with grown up kids, can comment on how challenging it is to raise a child... just saying... I can't say whether building up a business or building a child is harder to do. I think they're both too different to compare, but I'd be way cocky to assume I'd know!
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I can't argue the point cuz I've never gone through it? How Star Trek IV of you Laura (that's an easter egg for the others reading this who will get it). Boy, I only wish it was so easy to bring down the birth rate on this overpopulated mudball by putting that thought in people's heads.

I'll disagree as I have participated in raising kids, albeit not on a 365 day a year, 24/7 basis- but nonetheless, any time you are solely responsible for another life dependent on you for any given amount of time, I think you can comment on the difficulty. Moreso because I, unlike the parents, will eventually get a break - they won't - realizing that makes me respect them all the more.

As for my finding having a kid "less Noteworthy"- you misunderstand- I personally don't feel like I have to, or would lament it if I couldn't. And I'd much rather take a thought in my head and labor to make it tangible and real than do a biological 2 + 2 = 4 that myself and a mate are predisposed to accomplish. But again, that's me- its not an ad-hominem attack on everyone who opts to go a different road- I would never be so discourteous to my friend Matt Bartley or anyone else to say something like that. I just have a different set of priorities. And I'm still going to have a kid one day- its just not the end all be all of my existence, and I don't want it to be, just as I'm sure its not the end all be all to other people who have opted to have a family and done other things as well. I just don't want that to be the only thing I do in this world- I certainly don't want to grow old in a cubicle while I'm parenting.

And lose the pointless rhetoric on the "if someone hadn't given birth to you.." that's just a way to preclude argument. People challenge their existence every day, the ungrateful shits. If the Flying Spaghetti Monster wants to hit me with a bus now for daring to not want to have kids because someone had me, bring it. A universe that stupid I don't need. So what if I wasn't born? More meat and air for you. Wink
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can certainly argue about it, I just think it's a little presumptuous of you to pretend like you know exactly how hard or easy it would be to raise a kid -- which is how you're coming across. Because I babysat while growing up, do I really have an idea of what it's like to be a mom? Nope!!! I just think there are some things in life you can't really appreciate or understand until you experience them yourself.

Regardless, I believe you've back pedaled a bit. I was only responding to what you said: "I also never much cared for folks whose sole purpose in life was to have kids- like the marriage, the relationship- it was all secondary, an insidious, result oriented plan soley to propigate- the opposite end of the spectrum I suppose. Their choice, their happieness, I always found myself offended on some level by the calculated, single-mindedness of it."

Characterizing yourself one way is different than being offended by others who take a different path. Again, I don't think the goal of raising a family is any more single-minded than creating a business. And I've never met anyone who only wanted to pass on their name... usually it's the raising the children and creating a home for the family that appeals to people on that track.

And if you're going to take the over-population angle, I think we could all agree there are enough money-grubbing capitalists, i.e. business men, in the world too.

I never said you should want to have kids either!
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

laura wrote:

Regardless, I believe you've back pedaled a bit. I was only responding to what you said: "I also never much cared for folks whose sole purpose in life was to have kids- like the marriage, the relationship- it was all secondary, an insidious, result oriented plan soley to propigate- the opposite end of the spectrum I suppose. Their choice, their happieness, I always found myself offended on some level by the calculated, single-mindedness of it."


Nope, no backpedaling- There I was referring to a specific type- two of which I've encountered, both women, who were less cynical but more robotic versions of that cartoon- their lives to me seemed a grocery checklist- devoid of passion, time, or any external stimuli other than getting the lover to create a husband to get the baby- check, check, check. I found myself repulsed by the mindset. As if they couldn't enjoy who they were with for a bit? But this was to my eye and mine alone- and again, that comment, though unclear through my own context and haste, was not directed at all, just a select few I had encountered. I'm certainly not as myopic as the ridiculous little Amerocentric cunt who scribbled this little testament to her version of global mediocrity not taking into account some nice lady in the Afar tribe in Africa who could give two shits about talking about her wedding for a year or some Aboriginal who doesn't even know or care what the fuck a "date" is. Let's not forget the big FU the nice folks gave to the concepts of courting, nuptuals, and old age, after all.

And yes, we will have to disagree- I can appreciate and understand a great deal of things I myself have not done, if the ability to observe, participate and question is there, no matter if its in a more limited capacity. That's part of what makes parenthood so daunting to me- there is no checklist, no real guidlines to raising a decent person. I've seen it done great, I've seen it done poorly, I've seen how I've turned out- now I've got to figure out what was best out of what I've seen and how to emulate it. But I could be just as content with me and my wife only- its the happiest and most content I've ever been, even if we're boring by the standards of others.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the context helps. Include more of that from now on!!!

: P
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

one doesn't have to have children to know what it takes to do so.

being one whom was raised by those who didn't have a clue is clue enough.

telling those who haven't yet tried their hand at it that they don't know what's involved is a load of crap.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose you'd know exactly what it's like to give birth or have a period (though you could be a female, sorry) or be African American for that matter too!
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes i am assuming youre a white male.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

laura wrote:
yes i am assuming youre a white male.


even you, the cherished laura, are allowed to be wrong, well maybe wrong is too strong, perhaps fallible is more apt...

in fact i'm a (somewhat pasty) white female.

in other words, a spswf, at large.

not to be confused with large.

125lbs. and counting.

unfortunately.
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