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you like explosions, we like shoes, get over it
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Rob Gonsalves
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

laura wrote:

Or the word shallow. As I've said before, I don't consider a guy materialistic because he likes toys and gadgets, I just consider it natural. But when a woman enjoys her handbags or shoes, they are shallow!


No, they're both shallow. Or immature.

At least we're off the false "shoes = explosions" conflation.

You still haven't dealt with Slyder's very valid point that many females had the same response to SATC as many males did. Start with MaryAnn Johanson's review. Stop setting this up as a fake gender war. It's not working and it's very pre-feminist.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a female in Austin disliked this movie, that I've talked to. The packed Alamo Ritz Drafthouse were giddy as can be upon exiting the theater and so was the sold out show that left previous to us. Ritz is sold out for next coming weekends too, and probably only a handful of guys made that possible.

There may be some outspoken women out there who agree with the guys, but I guarantee you I'm not making up this war.

And no, I don't think a guy who likes action movies is shallow. Some guys, sure. But not BECAUSE they like action movies. Just as I don't think someone who likes horror movies is going to be a criminal.

I also don't agree that the SATC women only like handbags and shoes. They all have rewarding professions, for one, but are also the subjects of a movie. A movie is going to revolve around the character drama and the things that the "target audience," I have referred to, enjoy. Just like any movie would!

Someone, maybe Childress or Peter, mentioned how we never see Miranda at work -- even though she's apparently overworked. Can you think of many movies at all that don't give you a "day in the life at work of a character" to make it more realistic? Adding to the fact there are 4 characters you'd have to do that with in SATC? Plus, I have to go to work already, I don't go to a movie like this to see a woman go to work. You can say that the movie is more fun than gritty -- I welcome that in fact -- but to go on these rants about how slutty and superficial these women are and -- the women who "look up" to these women are -- it's just taking in one important step further in my opinion.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I absolutely love how no one can explain how they are sluts and yet it's been implied the SATC ladies are just that OVER AND OVER AND OVER again in review after review.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

She read my review. I'm walking on air!

Although I have no real desire to egg things on further--I am too busy steeling myself for "The Happening"--I must point out that the leg-spreading reference was a.) a bit of fun that I had hoped that anyone who had laughed and loved at whimsical discussions of "funky spunk" without offending delicate sensibilities b.) was meant to invoke their collective pasts on the TV show--where, to be fair, they each did have their respective bits of fun--before establishing where they were now as the story picked up.

At this point, I would like to ask you a couple of point-blank questions about the film that I don't think you have gotten around to addressing.

1. Did you actually believe that the various storylines were intricately crafted affairs that matched what you were hoping for in a big-screen "Sex and the City" saga or did they strike you as a bunch of abandoned subplots that were just shoehorned together?

2. Did you find the Jennifer Hudson character to be a well-thought out addition to the universe of the show or did you find her to be such a cynically-drawn and poorly-executed plot device that you found yourself wishing that the film would just cop to her being nothing more than an attempt to expand the potential ticket-buying audience and name her "Token"?

3. Did you really think that it needed to be 143 minutes long or did you find yourself mentally ticking off elements that could have been deleted in a flash without ever being missed?

By the way, the opening line of this note is a paraphrase from Hannah and Her Sisters/ Like Sex and the City, it tells a story of the lives and loves of a close-knit group of narcissitic upper-class New Yorkers. Unlike "Sex and the City," it works because the dramatic elements are believable, the comedy is hilarious and the emotions on display are recognizable to anyone viewing it, regardless of what kind of genitalia they may be packing.

peace out, yo
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

(1) Yes. I liked that it seemed to be a natural progression of the characters, rather than sensational twists. All the characters, including Mr. Big and the smaller parts, were true to themselves. Every female I've talked to about it (young to old) felt as I did.

(2) I liked seeing Jennifer Hudson, because I like her as a person. But her story weighed down the movie and was definitely the weakest of them all.

(3) Never got bored. Time went by fast for me.

Annie Hall is one of my favorite movies and I like everything that Woody Allen does, but Sex and the City is a lot more fun than Hannah and Her Sisters. Wink
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

laura wrote:
Not a female in Austin disliked this movie, that I've talked to.


Well, that's scientific.

laura wrote:
The packed Alamo Ritz Drafthouse were giddy as can be upon exiting the theater and so was the sold out show that left previous to us. Ritz is sold out for next coming weekends too, and probably only a handful of guys made that possible.


That still doesn't refute the fact that you don't have to be male to find the characters repugnant.

laura wrote:
There may be some outspoken women out there who agree with the guys, but I guarantee you I'm not making up this war.


Oh, there are other women who want to inflate this into a gender war, too. You're just the one who sounded off here in the forum. (I'd like to see some other females weigh in here.)

laura wrote:
And no, I don't think a guy who likes action movies is shallow. Some guys, sure. But not BECAUSE they like action movies. Just as I don't think someone who likes horror movies is going to be a criminal.


Nobody has equated liking action movies with shallowness. I don't think anyone has equated liking SATC, or other chick flicks of its ilk, with shallowness either. The issue here is the perceived shallowness of the characters. Try to stay on message.

laura wrote:
I also don't agree that the SATC women only like handbags and shoes. They all have rewarding professions, for one, but are also the subjects of a movie. A movie is going to revolve around the character drama and the things that the "target audience," I have referred to, enjoy. Just like any movie would!


This uses a lot of words to say nothing.

laura wrote:
Someone, maybe Childress or Peter, mentioned how we never see Miranda at work -- even though she's apparently overworked. Can you think of many movies at all that don't give you a "day in the life at work of a character" to make it more realistic?


I would imagine that a good movie would show you how Miranda is overworked rather than telling you she is. The objection seems to be to what the movie chooses to show versus what it chooses not to show. These are choices, and in a two-and-a-half-hour film there's certainly room for a brief bit with Miranda at work, sacrificing perhaps one of the trying-on-clothes montages.

laura wrote:
Plus, I have to go to work already, I don't go to a movie like this to see a woman go to work.


So the means by which these characters can afford their fabulous lifestyles is irrelevant?

laura wrote:
You can say that the movie is more fun than gritty -- I welcome that in fact -- but to go on these rants about how slutty and superficial these women are and -- the women who "look up" to these women are -- it's just taking in one important step further in my opinion.


I would check the title. It's Sex and the City, not Married/Monogamous Relationships and the City. These characters gained popularity by indulging in quite un-monogamous behavior for many episodes. See Bartley's example above. If they had not behaved that way, the show likely would've been cancelled very quickly and there'd be no movie in which the characters' sexual appetites are now Republican-friendly. So the characters bring that prior baggage into the film with them; it's not as if the critics are making it up.

Two interesting things to note: first, some have commented, probably with some validity, that the characters resemble in their behavior not so much women as catty upscale gay men, and indeed the show was created (Darren Star) and the film was written and directed (Michael Patrick King) by gay men. This is not a phenomenon created by women for women.

Second, nobody yet has made a comparison between the SATC characters and the AbFab characters. That was a show wherein the characters' dissolute materialism and wanton appetites were played for a productive mixture of satirical pity and ironic affection. I enjoy that show, perhaps partly because it doesn't ask me to take their pains and problems seriously. The SATC show and movie, from what I gather, make some feints towards giving the characters Real Heartaches and Problems, and therein lies the rub. You can't set up a glitzy, escapist world and then halfheartedly introduce pathos into it. It produces impatience in certain viewers, male and female alike. My point is that objections to the film are not necessarily based in sexism. Thus far you haven't provided any evidence to the contrary other than your opinion and "people you talked to."
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

laura wrote:
...including Mr. Big and the smaller parts...


I'm sorry, but this brief beauty of a pun was pretty much the only thing about this thread left untapped. (rimshot)

laura wrote:
Sex and the City is a lot more fun than Hannah and Her Sisters. Wink


At least, according to the females we've talked to on this thread.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Well, that's scientific."

---And so is appealing to some female reviews? My method is about as scientific as yours.

"Oh, there are other women who want to inflate this into a gender war, too. You're just the one who sounded off here in the forum. (I'd like to see some other females weigh in here.)"

---The fact that no other women will chime in here is because eFilmCritic is male dominated. So what's your point? Hence me chiming in so aggressively.

"That still doesn't refute the fact that you don't have to be male to find the characters repugnant."

---It's about as close as anyone is going to get to refuting it. All I can say is my fellow college educated girl friends, my mom, my aunts, my teen sister, my supervisor, all loved it, hands down.

"Nobody has equated liking action movies with shallowness. I don't think anyone has equated liking SATC, or other chick flicks of its ilk, with shallowness either. The issue here is the perceived shallowness of the characters. Try to stay on message. "

---To the first sentence: I KNOW. That's my POINT! Slyder was the one saying otherwise. My point was that we judge guy preoccupations for what they are, but girl preoccupations for some reason say a lot more about their lack of character and depth.

To the second few sentences -- yes they HAVE, guys have mocked the movie and its fans -- not just said "hey its not for me, its boring" but have pretty much rolled their eyes at it and insinuated that it encourages a very shallow, bubble-headed culture. I'm trying to get across that this kind of knee-jerk reaction is inherently flawed and comes from a society used to watching movie after movie that has a straight male director's perspective. The reason it's so hard for you guys to see this is yes, because you're guys. I am staying on message. I'm the only one who's actually paying attention to the actual plot and message of SATC. Everyone else is hung up on the decorations. And somehow those decorations undermine the message. My point is they shouldn't, because their is nothing wrong with having a shoe fetish. Whether you're poor or rich.

"This uses a lot of words to say nothing. "

May have used a lot of words, but I did indeed say something. I have a lot of interests, but if you were to make an entertaining movie about me, rather than a straight biopic, you'd probably focus on the events of my life and not my hobbies. The fact that SATC revolves around their lunches and girl talks and relationships does not mean they have no life outside of shoes or handbags.

"I would imagine that a good movie would show you how Miranda is overworked rather than telling you she is. The objection seems to be to what the movie chooses to show versus what it chooses not to show. These are choices, and in a two-and-a-half-hour film there's certainly room for a brief bit with Miranda at work, sacrificing perhaps one of the trying-on-clothes montages. "

Ok, sure, that's a legitimate criticism, but I never felt Miranda's frustrations with work were unrealistic.

"So the means by which these characters can afford their fabulous lifestyles is irrelevant? "

It's not irrelevant, and has been fleshed out in many TV shows, and we already are aware of everything these characters do for a living. I'm not sure why it's necessary to spend a day in the law offices with Miranda.

"I would check the title. It's Sex and the City...."

What is slutty about sex by itself? Why can't girls talk about sex frankly and not be prudes, without being considered promiscuous? Sure each character had their fun in the show... but not as much as you might think. Samantha has stolen most of that thunder. Charlotte is not easy; Miranda was typically attached to some kind of boyfriend during her escapades, same with Carrie... because it was an episodic TV show and the subject is sex, of course there number of partners is going to be larger than if we were talking about reality or a movie. I just think it's curiously natural to jump on the "they're skanks" bandwagons simply because the characters aren't afraid to be honest about sex. And I think that's plainly sexist. Plus, a lot of you have said you barely watched the TV show so if you're basing all your accusations on the movie, then you're basing the slutty comment on absolutely nothing.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

laura wrote:
The fact that no other women will chime in here is because eFilmCritic is male dominated.


I'd think it more accurate to say that eFilmCritic is male-dominated because no other women chime in here. We don't intentionally drive them away or blow them off; they just ain't around, so don't try to spin that one in your favor.

laura wrote:
All I can say is my fellow college educated girl friends, my mom, my aunts, my teen sister, my supervisor, all loved it, hands down.


I thought you were ranting against professional critical response, in which case public reaction is not a valid argument. Again, just because Transformers made a gajillion dollars (look it up) and featured explosions doesn't make it a touching, insightful, or even 'fun' film, no matter what many of my collegiate peers claim.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm back with a couple of more cups of gasoline for the fire.

1.
Quote:
Say there's a movie about a group of guy friends, and you could have the main themes be anything really -- but let's say they're relationship-focused. Now let's say that each character is fleshed out in its own way but they are all bonded by their love of of cars, or video games, or planes, or pot. Any kind of hobby or interest or object like that.


There was. It was called "Diner" and it was a great movie. It featured characters who were, in their own ways, shallow and self-absorbed (come on, making a girl pass a test on the Colts before agreeing to marry her?) The chief difference (besides the fact that it was funnier, smarter and a hell of a lot shorter) is that it took a critical eye towards that self-absorption instead of blindly celebrating it. Of course, now that I think about it, I can almost imagine something involving Kim Cattrall and that infamous box of popcorn The remainder of this musing has been censored as it merely dovetails off into some unspeakable jokes involving movie theater butter-flavored topping.

2. I'm glad to hear that your inner circle of friends adored the movie but that hardly makes for a sweeping assessment of all femaledom. I bet I could go down to an elementary school, poll the girls there (god that makes me sound like a contestant on "To Catch a Predator) and come away with the startling revelation that Miley Cyrus is the single greatest musical talent to ever live. Now that may be true within the parameters of my focus group, but that don't necessarily make it accurate.

3. If you want to see a good movie involving the frivolous pursuit of love and shoes, may I recommend Marie Antoinette? The clothes are better, the music is better and the ending is better.

4. I didn't dislike Sex and the City because I hate movies about women. Actually, and Childress can back me up on this, it is because I hate movies about white people.

5. If we waste all our energy bickering now, what are we going to do when "Mama Mia!" comes out?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

William Goss wrote:


I'd think it more accurate to say that eFilmCritic is male-dominated because no other women chime in here. We don't intentionally drive them away or blow them off; they just ain't around, so don't try to spin that one in your favor.


I should think the forum's other female commenters, none of whom are exactly wallflowers, are avoiding this topic (if they've even noticed this thread) because they're not sufficiently interested. Besides, Laura is having too much fun being the picked-on martyr who starts these things up because she wants to be right, same as before.

I'm done with this thread, anyway. Said what I want to say, and aside from that, she's a woman and she doesn't get it. Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

petersob wrote:
If you want to see a good movie involving the frivolous pursuit of love and shoes, may I recommend Marie Antoinette? The clothes are better, the music is better and the ending is better.


Oh, to have heard Carrie narrate, "After a lifetime of giving head, Samantha was finally about to lose hers."
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I'd think it more accurate to say that eFilmCritic is male-dominated because no other women chime in here. We don't intentionally drive them away or blow them off; they just ain't around, so don't try to spin that one in your favor. "

Dude, don't put words in my mouth. Never implied such a thing.

"I thought you were ranting against professional critical response, in which case public reaction is not a valid argument. Again, just because Transformers made a gajillion dollars (look it up) and featured explosions doesn't make it a touching, insightful, or even 'fun' film, no matter what many of my collegiate peers claim."

I was ranting about the perspective of women versus the perspective of men, which I had become enlightened about via the reviews of male critics. If the ratio of bad female reviews to good female reviews is the same as male, I'll conclude that those females are probably either unique or that my theory is somewhat flawed. But as there are just a whole lot more male reviewers out there, I think it's going to be hard to make that conclusion.

"
There was. It was called "Diner" and it was a great movie. It featured characters who were, in their own ways, shallow and self-absorbed (come on, making a girl pass a test on the Colts before agreeing to marry her?) The chief difference (besides the fact that it was funnier, smarter and a hell of a lot shorter) is that it took a critical eye towards that self-absorption instead of blindly celebrating it. Of course, now that I think about it, I can almost imagine something involving Kim Cattrall and that infamous box of popcorn The remainder of this musing has been censored as it merely dovetails off into some unspeakable jokes involving movie theater butter-flavored topping. "

Can't comment on this since I just haven't seen the movie. But I don't see how a guy with an affection for cars should be considered materialistic. I'm just thinking of a random example.

"I'm glad to hear that your inner circle of friends adored the movie but that hardly makes for a sweeping assessment of all femaledom. I bet I could go down to an elementary school, poll the girls there (god that makes me sound like a contestant on "To Catch a Predator) and come away with the startling revelation that Miley Cyrus is the single greatest musical talent to ever live. Now that may be true within the parameters of my focus group, but that don't necessarily make it accurate. "

Woa woa, so college educated women and women past 20 are in the same boat as elementary school gals? They have equally non-discriminative tastes? Sure we're the target audience of SATC; doesn't mean we'll lap anything it throws at us, up. Secondly, my entire review was about how a critic shouldn't ignore the target audience when reviewing it.

3. I don't like Sofia Coppoloa AT ALL. I hate her interpretation of women, Lost in Translation and Virgin Suicides portrayed them completely unrealistically. Yes a woman director did a bad job! OMG MY THEORY IS RUINED. Stop taking corner cases and having them justify counter opinions people. Everyone knows that women like SATC more than men. That's why only women are seeing it in the theaters right now.

4. I never said that you hate movies about women. And I never implied you should LIKE SATC. I'm so annoyed that people keep falling back on this; it's the insinuations about the characters and the fans of the characters that I hate -- which are based up on the fact that most guys and some women just may not empathize with wanting a huge shoe closet or renting designer hand bags.

5. If Mamma Mia! Is not a musical, I will be disappointed -- I did not see any singing in the scenes, just the ABBA music over it.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And what person in a debate wouldn't want to prove their point? I'm not just out to be right; I think I'm right. My gosh these boards are so fucking boring and yet any time there's a little conversation going, it comes back to me being stubborn. When really it's just me being ganged up on and taking 10 posts to get one point clarified because it keeps getting misinterpreted. Take for instance all the people who keep justifying that they shouldn't have to LIKE the film when I never once implied they should.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just for the record, I think a lot of you guys realize that you probably are sexist in some ways without ever realizing it. Just like I'm probably racist in some ways without realizing it -- I'm white after all. I think that's why a lot of you are so up in arms about my feature, and since you seem to feel it's easy to pick apart, you will do so willingly.

Like the developers here at my work. They are sexist and have no idea. I had to prove to them that I was intelligent and could find a bug on a site before they would take my word that I had actually found a bug versus doing something wrong -- now they do of course and always turn to me. But it took a while. Whereas any guy who spoke up in the beginning would get their attention immediately! And I work for a company that's about as hippie and Austin-ish as can be. Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

laura wrote:
That's why only women are seeing it in the theaters right now.


My father is 47. He is straight. He is single (well, divorced). He's not followed Sex and the City as a show.

He enjoyed the movie.

(As such, I now officially get everything from my mother's side of the family.)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. I was not trying to insinuate that female college graduates and elementary school girls were the same--just trying to point out that you can skew anything depending on who you talk to. If I asked around at a sci-fi convention, for example, I might come away with the startling revelation that "Star Trek" was the single most important creation in the whole of mankind and again, that simply isn't true (with the possible exception of "Wrath of Khan"

2. I'm not writing reviews for a presumed target audience. I am writing my own opinions based on what I see on the screen and that is all. Trust me, there are plenty of reviewers out there willing to pander in this way but I am not one of them, mostly out of laziness.

3. Watch Diner--trust me.

4. The things about Marie Antoinette and hating white people were jokes. Not necessarily amusing jokes, by any stretch of the imagination, but jokes nevertheless.

5. Sofia Coppola could outdo "Sex and the City" in her sleep--some will no doubt argue that she already has.

6. From what I understand, Mama Mia is a full-blown musical. I already have my suicide pills at the ready. Not because I am prejudiced against musicals, but because I fucking hate ABBA like the plague.

7. What would John Simon say about all of this? My guess is that it would be something along the lines of Mein Luftkissenfahrzeug ist von den Aalen voll!
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

petersob wrote:
Not because I am prejudiced against musicals, but because I fucking hate ABBA like the plague.


...which kinda goes hand-in-hand with hating white people.

(And I mean, because the members of ABBA are white, not because all white people love ABBA.)

('cuz that simply isn't true.)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I was not trying to insinuate that female college graduates and elementary school girls were the same--just trying to point out that you can skew anything depending on who you talk to. If I asked around at a sci-fi convention, for example, I might come away with the startling revelation that "Star Trek" was the single most important creation in the whole of mankind and again, that simply isn't true (with the possible exception of "Wrath of Khan" "

--But I never made the argument that SATC was the most brilliant movie I've ever seen. That's hardly been my angle from post #1. My conclusion is that women clearly appreciate the movie more than men.

"I'm not writing reviews for a presumed target audience. I am writing my own opinions based on what I see on the screen and that is all. Trust me, there are plenty of reviewers out there willing to pander in this way but I am not one of them, mostly out of laziness. "

--You definitely can't leave out your opinions; but you still have to consider the target audience when making them. Would you not do to she same for a genre film or a kid's movie? Secondly, I don't think your review should be glowing because you figure SATC fans will adore it, but you should consider how you -- a male -- might hastily jump to conclusions about the characters/themes without really thinking over it, simply because you can't relate to them.

"Watch Diner--trust me."

OK.

"The things about Marie Antoinette and hating white people were jokes. Not necessarily amusing jokes, by any stretch of the imagination, but jokes nevertheless."

Perhaps if I'd seen Marie Antoinette I would've figure that out.

"Sofia Coppola could outdo "Sex and the City" in her sleep--some will no doubt argue that she already has."

Haha, fair enough, but I can't stand her style of direction.

"From what I understand, Mama Mia is a full-blown musical. I already have my suicide pills at the ready. Not because I am prejudiced against musicals, but because I fucking hate ABBA like the plague. "

Yay! I actually am not a fan of ABBA, and only really got into their music via the show. I like the music in the show; don't so much like it outside it.

"My father is 47. He is straight. He is single (well, divorced). He's not followed Sex and the City as a show.

He enjoyed the movie. "

How interesting! : )
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course, I never related to Travis Bickle very much and yet I still like Taxi Driver.

In fact, these are the only three movies that I claim to relate to in any way, shape or form.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059245/

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102782/

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086325/
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, did I miss anything? I'll make it short.

1. Despite Peter saying it's a joke - it's a well-known fact around the Chicago screening room that he hates films about white people. To be more specific - films about young, white, suburban males with relationship problems. In his defense, a majority of them are bad and further proof that we're equal opportunity haters.

2. While I quoted Say Anything in my review to point out how far we've come from the teenage girls who fell in love with Lloyd Dobler to the same women 19 years later who love THIS shit, obviously I misquoted and should have went with the more telling, "Bitches, man!"

And who the hell likes Jennifer Hudson "as a person?"
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually meant as a personality/actress. I don't know her personally.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:11 pm    Post subject: Thelma & Louise: Reply with quote

Rob Gonsalves wrote:
Thelma & Louise was about something other than airhead wish-fulfillment. I enjoyed it and so did many other males. Many females enjoyed it. Others did not, citing what they felt to be a defeatist denouement.

I just think the whole "you don't like this film because you're this/that/the other" is hopelessly out of touch; it's truly bizarre that we're still hearing it in 2008.



Thelma & Louise was a cool movie. Admittedly, I especially liked the hold-up, and when Thelma & Louise shot up the wise-guy's oil truck! heh heh.
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bump

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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going from Facebook status updates, even Laura didn't like this one.
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