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THE SUSPENSE!!!
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laura
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

first of all -

I was fucking kidding.
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Jack Sommersby
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edwards fucking urged him not to concede the fucking thing, with a very plain-Jane logic attached to it: if it were Bush, would he be conceding with these uncounted provisional ballots? Hell no! Then again, Kerry pussied his way around Bush during this whole campaign, not calling him out as the lying sack of shit he is. Well, like Tom Daschle, he got what he fucking deserved, and he has no one to blame but himself.

And that cracks me up about that "don't change a horse in midstream" crap -- especially since the stram is actually a fucking hurricane. I've written it over and over, and I'll write it again: This is why Bush unleashed his illegal, unnecessary in Iraq -- so he could run as a "wartime president". If this wasn't more than obvious then, it sure as hell should be now.
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Jack Sommersby
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

-------
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Last edited by Jack Sommersby on Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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laura
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No need to repeat yourself, there.

I think SNL should do a sketch with Fox News gradually becoming more energetic in reporting Bush's win, you know champagne the whole deal -- hysteria... and then have CNN reporters, on live television, slowly offing themselves one by one.

If you guys wanna blame dumb Americans for this, fine... but the reason the provisional ballots aren't going to be counted, is because there aren't enough to make a difference... Bush won the popular vote, he won the electoral college... I really don't think this another Florida. Frankly, I think it was really noble (and smart) of Kerry to let the people choose.
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Lurk



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't believe he conceded either.

We are all going to pay dearly, but I think Americans the most.

Better start your drill training now folks.
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Jack Sommersby
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laura,

If you guys wanna blame dumb Americans for this, fine...

When you have people who purportedly care about their country who are downright ignorant as to who and who wasn't responsible for the greatest terrorist act in American history, yes, they're plain-ass fucking dumb.

When they can cite you football scores and what the special is over at Luby's cafeteria, yet don't know that the new Medicare bill specifically prohibits the federal government from negotiating lower prescription drug costs , then, yes, they're plain-ass fucking dumb.

When they fail to see that Iraq was not a haven for terrorists until their little boy king illegally and unnecessarily attacked it, then, yes, they're plain-ass fucking dumb.

Need I go on?

(Of course, some of them are not dumb. They just choose to ignore these inconvenient facts, with defecit-contributing tax cuts and bigoted policy agendas dancing in their heads.)

Lurk,

Better start your drill training now folks.

They're going to have be unpaid, though. Because this country's fucking broke and leveraged to the hilt with foreign countries holding massive IOUs on us. People think those tax cuts just come out of thin air. No, they do not. The money to pay for them is borrowed, and banks in other countries hold the notes, which our children and grandchildren will have to pay for.
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Last edited by Jack Sommersby on Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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laura
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I said it was fine for you to blame them. Smile

I will say, though, I know people who are ANYthing but dumb/ignorant, who voted for Bush... and not for selfish reasons -- maybe you ought not to simplify things soo much and really question why the vote went in Bush's direction... maybe there's more to it than you think.
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Maegs
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

**Flame ahead***

I think Americans would have voted for Bush no matter what. I mean, he's done HORRIBLE things. Immoral, un-Christian things. I an incensed that Bush would take my beliefs and use them for political and financial gain--and still consider himself a Christian.

My spouse and I were speculating, exactly what would Bush have to do to not get re-elected. The only way he could lose is if he was caught performing abortions on girls while he was kissing another man.

Heaven knows that the bombs he ordered dropped on the women and children in Iraq don't matter. Sending American boys and girls to die so that he can line his pockets with the filthiest of bloody lucres.

To hell with him.

*phew*

Thanks for letting me get that out. I'm trying to be graceful about this....heaven knows my Repulican opponents aren't being graceful, but I shall try to take the high road.
(As long as I can let some steam off every once in a while.)

My only consolation: The American people get exactly what they deserve.


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frankgrimes



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

9/11 was one of the greatest tragedy in American history, but I wonder what if for some reason it never happened. Would Bush be re-elected? I am thinking NO
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Charles Tatum



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

laura wrote:
No need to repeat yourself, there.

I think SNL should do a sketch with Fox News gradually becoming more energetic in reporting Bush's win, you know champagne the whole deal -- hysteria... and then have CNN reporters, on live television, slowly offing themselves one by one.


You should have seen Katie Couric and Matt Lauer announcing the concession- Katie in black and close to tears, and Matt had the same expression on his face as he did reporting 9/11. Busy hammering the last nail in the all powerful liberal media's coffin...
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laura
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could do like one of those "fun with real audio" cartoons... matt could slit his wrists, katie could hang herself, fox news could end the thing with an orgy
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Charles Tatum



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

laura wrote:
You could do like one of those "fun with real audio" cartoons... matt could slit his wrists, katie could hang herself, fox news could end the thing with an orgy


But now, as my victorious Democratic senator Byron Dorgan and other liberals are pointing out, we must heal our divided nation...blow it out your combover, Byron, call Tom Daschle and ask to rent out his brand new house in Maryland.
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Oz
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laura, you mentioned back a bit that there isn't enough provisional ballots to make a difference in Ohio... there's nearly 200,000 of them, and most of those came from Republicans challenging the right of Democrat voters to lodge their ballot.

The Democrats didn't challenge one single voter in all of America yesterday, but the Republicans challenged hundreds of thousands, for up to six weeks in advance of the vote.

There's also, by some counts, nearly 50,000 absentee ballots expected to arrive at the election offices today - absentee ballots that have been generally sent by Democrats who didn't trust the voting machines... Or, in other words - smart Democrats.

But the Ohio Secretary of State has said that, according to Ohio law, those provisional ballots can't be counted for ELEVEN DAYS.

So why did Kerry concede? Because he knew that to not do so would be called, by the 'liberal media', a petulant act. The Tucker Carlson's and Soliedad O'Brien's would be asking what he's waiting for and why he can't admit defeat for the next two weeks.

Edwards was prepared to go to war over it. Kerry wasn't. He's doing the noble thing, just as Al Gore did last time, and falling on his sword, even though he could conceivably won this race if they just counted the fucking votes.

I'd recommend the pissed off majority, who can't fathom how, when so many are so determined to vote against Bush, he could still won the popular vote, to check out http://www.blackboxvoting.org - they did Freedom of Information requests en masse to look at computer logs, modem problem reports, etc etc, all to figure out whether there is a problem with the vote counting coming from electronic voting machines.

And six weeks ago, during primaries in Seattle, they found not only immense problems, but signs of probable hacking activity, and a three hour period of the server logs where all activity from outsiders is logged, that had been deleted. They also managed to find out the central vote counting server's phone number, which meant if they could do it, anyone with malicious intent could.

This was not a clean election - most aren't, but few get their sullied rep from the sort of corrupt double-dealing this one will be famous for. Republicans can crow all they like, but this election is less legitimate than the last. And it's a damn shame that Kerry didn't have the balls to stand and fight.
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natasha_theobald
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't even talk about it yet. I am doubly devastated this time, because I naively believed this wouldn't happen. I just don't understand.

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Oz
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am dedicated to delivering the state of Ohio to the Republican Party"
-- CEO of Diebold, maker of the electronic voting machines used in Ohio.

At some point, you have to question why people in Ohio would be lining up at 2am in the morning, if all they wanted was the status quo. I mean, who stands in line for nine hours if they want no change?

Open up the voting machines and audit the count. If there was no fishy stuff going on with the count, then surely doing so would only confirm Bush won... right?

"What's important is not how many votes are made, but who counts them."
--Joseph Stalin
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Lurk



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moving on up

This is only the beginning. Time to get out your futons Chris. And I still have an extra room.
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Oz
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My couch is available for anyone who needs it.

The only solace I can find in all this is that it sets the table for an Edwards/Obama Presidential ticket in 2008.
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natasha_theobald
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would move today, but the family is not so willing to pack up again so soon. I guess I'll have to be satisfied with living in a coastal blue state. Illinois was blue, but there I felt surrounded.
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natasha_theobald
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course, Oregon voted to ban same sex unions, which pisses me off a bit. I've only been married eight and a half years, but what I have learned is that the three ingredients to a good union are love, commitment, and a good sense of humor. None of those things are gender-based.
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Oz
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Early on it looked like Oregon was going to buck the trend and vote to allow same sex marriage. But I guess even the most liberal state still has full churches who will go on out and damn the sinners.

Actually, the more I think about it, if the election *wasn't* messed with through the voting machines (and we'll never know), the big spread to bush on the popular vote tally may well have been down to the fact that rednecks care more about beating on gays than they do voting for President.

When there are 11 states with anti-gay questions on the ballot, you've got to think that a whole lot of people who might not have otherwise been motivated to vote came out specifically for the gay question, and voted for Bush while they were there.
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Lurk



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
you've got to think that a whole lot of people who might not have otherwise been motivated to vote came out specifically for the gay question, and voted for Bush while they were there.


I guess Bush finally found one way to get red neck voters out of the closet. There is no fanatic like a relgious one.
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laura
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This reminds me of playing a board game with my stubborn brother. Even if it's a no-strategy game like "Sorry" and he loses, it's always unfair... he'll refuse to acknowledge his mistakes/lack of skills, and develop elaborate explanations of why he lost -- connecting the dots in the most fascinating ways.

To be honest -- I am indifferent about this, would have liked a change though... BUT I just think the fact that Kerry conceded is clear that he believed people chose Bush over him, and he was gracious, though regretful, over it -- Edwards is a lawyer, so of course he wanted to contest it.
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Lurk



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess Laura knowing what we do about Bush makes us very, very reluctant to say he won fair and square. He has demonstrated time and again that Bush cares about Bush and only Bush, not about the American people and definitely not about the rest of the world.

My reluctance to accept defeat gracefully as you put it, is completely based on Bush's character and all the evidence that I have seen that proves he is a corrupt leader. I have absolutely no trouble believing that he would have rigged the votes. After all, he did it the last time.
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Oz
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What it comes down to for me is this: Hundreds of thousands of Democratic voters had their right to vote challenged by Republicans.

Not one Democrat put a Republican through the same thing.

To me, if everyone goes out and votes, and everyone uses the same ballots and machines and there's a paper trail you can follow to ensure everything was counter properly, and the polling stations have enough machines to cope with demand, and nobody fucks with the registrations etc (you know, the same sort of democracy that most western countries have), then you trust the vote and you deal when you lose.

I can't believe that the Australian people voted for John Howard - again - but I trust implicitly that the system used for the election was problem-free, because anyone can turn up at any polling place in their area, have their name checked off a list, and vote by marking a box on a piece of paper. No challenging, no nine-hour lines, no 2AM waits, no partisan Secretarys of State changing the rules or making thousands of people jump through hoops to qualify to vote, no electoral college's, no machines that change your vote, or don't record your vote, or that can be changed after the fact..

It's an election - it's supposed to be simple. You show up, you vote, you wait for a result. That America doesn't operate that way is why people are baffled, and with all the sneaky cap going on around it, surely you can understand why it's hard to shrug and say 'well heck, obviously America came out in record numbers because they don't want change.'

The exit polls all said Kerry won the battleground states by between 1-4 points. That he lost them all but Pennsylvania by that same figure is OBVIOUSLY grounds for wonder.

I suspect that if George Bush Sr had won his election against Clinton, none of us would ever question the sresult, simply because Sr's government, while awful, wasn't known for secrecy, dirty tricks and smear campaigns. His son's campaign most definitely is, and that makes this sudden supposed massive swing against Kerry a really tough pill to swallow.
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lindy03



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

natasha_theobald wrote:
I can't even talk about it yet. I am doubly devastated this time, because I naively believed this wouldn't happen. I just don't understand.

Sad
Thank you for expressing my feelings so well.

I have already cried several times today. Unbelievably difficult to get the job done. You wouldn't believe how freaking biased one of the shows I work on was. Gee-sus! I was so angry, I almost spit bullets.

I am unbelievably, overwhelmingly disappointed & dismayed with 52% (or whatever the f**@ing number is at this point) of this country. I couldn't watch the Little Boy Idiot foam and froth over their win. Calling for unity? HA!!! Just like four years ago, right???? I'm sure that will happen.

But, those idiotic simpleton people that voted for him. Damn it!!! Go out & read a f^#@ing paper!! Read some freaking overseas news on the internet. It's all out there for everyone to see. But, OMG take the time to f*$@ing read??? Damn it!!!

I'm so upset. There are not enough words to express it.
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