eFilmCritic Forum Index eFilmCritic
Community Forum
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

I don't understand the Criterion pack of Fanny and Alexander
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    eFilmCritic Forum Index -> DVD Talk
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Slyder
HBS Monkey
HBS Monkey


Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 1525
Location: Ogden, Utah, USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:32 pm    Post subject: I don't understand the Criterion pack of Fanny and Alexander Reply with quote

Ok, yesterday I was checking out at Best Buy all the DVDs that they were selling there and came across the "Fanny and Alexander" dvd pack from Criterion.

The thing that boggled me is that in the pack it contained the two features, the 188 min. theatrical version and the 312 min. Television cut.

I don't understand this, why the hell did it include the same movie in two different cuts?

Why not just settle with either the 188 minute cut OR the 312 minute cut?

That's just insane, completely unnecessary if you ask me.
_________________
Slyder
-----------------------------------
I saw more movies at Sundance than Ben Lyons did!!!

You can tell me that I've got no class, look around you and see who's laughing last - Rush
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger
Nick Sievers



Joined: 19 Oct 2003
Posts: 131
Location: Nowra, NSW, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Criterion pride themselves on releasing an ultimate set for a title when they can. They aren't Columbia who release the same movie in 5 different versions for every film. They did this earlier in the year with Bergman's Scenes from a Marriage.

Hopefully someone will buy me the F&A set for Xmas.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
TheAngryJew
HBS Monkey
HBS Monkey


Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 5525
Location: Philadelphia

PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slyder, you're officially a fargin lunatic.

If there are two well-known versions of a certain movie, why WOULDN'T Criterion want to release the most complete package possible? You're actually complaining that both versions are included? Would you have done that if Lucas gave us both versions of Star Wars? Does the CC release of Brazil qualify as "insane" because it includes Gilliam's intended cut AND the cut that Universal wanted to release theatrically?

How about the DVDs for Aliens, Legend, Cinema Paradiso and E.T.?

Nothing personal, pal, but I think this is a wack0 thing to complain about. I think the ability to include alternate versions is one of DVD's best features.
_________________
Scott Weinberg
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Ryan_A
HBS Monkey
HBS Monkey


Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 690
Location: Champaign, IL

PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plus, the television cut is a superior to the theatrical. My opinion, anyway.
_________________
The Sunday News Recap! Archive - Excuse me, do these effectively hide my thunder?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jason Whyte
HBS Monkey
HBS Monkey


Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 386
Location: Victoria

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And they aren't double-charging you, either. The 5 disc version also includes two discs of documentaries and interviews and can be for usual Criterion prices. heh.

The theatrical cut is also available on it's own.

Quote:
Would you have done that if Lucas gave us both versions of Star Wars?


Give me the version of Star Wars that I want and I'll happily purchase. Smile
_________________
"I talked to Jeremy Piven on the phone, and he told me that he discovered that he had a very high level of mercury. So my understanding is that he is leaving showbusiness to pursue a career as a thermometer." -- David Mamet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
Slyder
HBS Monkey
HBS Monkey


Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 1525
Location: Ogden, Utah, USA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheAngryJew wrote:
Slyder, you're officially a fargin lunatic.

If there are two well-known versions of a certain movie, why WOULDN'T Criterion want to release the most complete package possible? You're actually complaining that both versions are included? Would you have done that if Lucas gave us both versions of Star Wars? Does the CC release of Brazil qualify as "insane" because it includes Gilliam's intended cut AND the cut that Universal wanted to release theatrically?

How about the DVDs for Aliens, Legend, Cinema Paradiso and E.T.?

Nothing personal, pal, but I think this is a wack0 thing to complain about. I think the ability to include alternate versions is one of DVD's best features.


Thanks for the commendation.

And yes, I do agree that Criterion should release the most complete package possible but come-fucking-on, theer is no need to have two cuts for the same fucking film.

If Bergman's preferred cut was the 312 min. version, then why the hell include the other version? It's obvious that the people are rather going to watch the 312 version while the other version is just going to get stuffed, so in other words, it's a waste of plastic and a waste of money, they're ripping me off my fucking money. They should've stuck with either one, preferably of course the 312 min. cut.

I don't have anything against "Directors' Cuts," I am fully supportive of them. I DO rant about the need selling an original cut when a "directors cut" is already available, so yes I rather buy director's cuts from Brazil, Das Boot, Alien, Aliens, JFK plus several others rather than the original "Commercial cut" version.

I'll always take a "director's cut" over a "theatrical cut" anytime.

Hence why I bitch about this, it was completely unnecessary to include both cuts since it's a waste of money and plastic and they're ripping people off their money because of this since it's a marketing scam.

And if Lucas presented me with two versions of Star Wars I'd go for his preferred version, period, always. If they're separate I'd go with the better of the two (Directors Cut), but if he presented them in one box, together, I'd go bitching too, since he's fucking ripping me off.
_________________
Slyder
-----------------------------------
I saw more movies at Sundance than Ben Lyons did!!!

You can tell me that I've got no class, look around you and see who's laughing last - Rush
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger
TheAngryJew
HBS Monkey
HBS Monkey


Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 5525
Location: Philadelphia

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, but you're working from the false assumption that, well, everyone agrees with you. What if there's a boatload of people out there who just LOVE the abridged version?? Criterion should say "Nah, we're pretending that version was never made. It's what Slyddie would want."
_________________
Scott Weinberg
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
MP Bartley
HBS Monkey
HBS Monkey


Joined: 16 Jul 2002
Posts: 1818
Location: Sunderland, England

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And for someone who has professed to want to be a director I would have thought you would appreciate these packs/deals.

Comparing theatrical to directors cuts can teach you so much about editing and pacing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Slyder
HBS Monkey
HBS Monkey


Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 1525
Location: Ogden, Utah, USA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheAngryJew wrote:
Yes, but you're working from the false assumption that, well, everyone agrees with you. What if there's a boatload of people out there who just LOVE the abridged version?? Criterion should say "Nah, we're pretending that version was never made. It's what Slyddie would want."


If there's somebody that prefers the "Abridged version" rather than the "director's version" then that guy is more fucking lunatic than I am
_________________
Slyder
-----------------------------------
I saw more movies at Sundance than Ben Lyons did!!!

You can tell me that I've got no class, look around you and see who's laughing last - Rush
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger
Slyder
HBS Monkey
HBS Monkey


Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 1525
Location: Ogden, Utah, USA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MP Bartley wrote:
And for someone who has professed to want to be a director I would have thought you would appreciate these packs/deals.

Comparing theatrical to directors cuts can teach you so much about editing and pacing.


Gee I never thought of that

I'm not saying that I don't appreciate the deal, it's just that for me it doesn't make sense having two cuts for the same movie, period.
_________________
Slyder
-----------------------------------
I saw more movies at Sundance than Ben Lyons did!!!

You can tell me that I've got no class, look around you and see who's laughing last - Rush
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger
Oz
HBS Monkey
HBS Monkey


Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 5895
Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm waiting for them to add the Dutch TV cut before I splash out. Those Nederlanders sure do know how to tweak, is all I'm saying.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Nick Sievers



Joined: 19 Oct 2003
Posts: 131
Location: Nowra, NSW, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And if Lucas presented me with two versions of Star Wars I'd go for his preferred version, period, always.

Quote:
If there's somebody that prefers the "Abridged version" rather than the "director's version" then that guy is more fucking lunatic than I am


So anyone that finds Lucas' SE versions of SW inferior to the original versions is a fucking lunatic? Every addition he made to those films are completely superfluous and just downright distracting for a 28yr old film.

I bought those new DVDs and was so annoyed at the further changes that I just said fuck it and bought the old laserdiscs so I could finally enjoy them again.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
MP Bartley
HBS Monkey
HBS Monkey


Joined: 16 Jul 2002
Posts: 1818
Location: Sunderland, England

PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guess I'm a fucking lunatic then because I prefer the 'Abridged' version of Close Encounters, Cinema Paradiso...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Slyder
HBS Monkey
HBS Monkey


Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 1525
Location: Ogden, Utah, USA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope, Scott says I'm a fucking lunatic.

You're a fucking lunatic x 2
_________________
Slyder
-----------------------------------
I saw more movies at Sundance than Ben Lyons did!!!

You can tell me that I've got no class, look around you and see who's laughing last - Rush
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger
TheAngryJew
HBS Monkey
HBS Monkey


Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 5525
Location: Philadelphia

PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't fucking put words in my mouth, pal.

Person A bitches because, gasp, TWO different versions are in the same DVD package.

Person B says "I prefer the director's cut".

Explain how that's the same thing.

Better yet, don't. This conversation is getting annoying.
_________________
Scott Weinberg
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
laura
HBS Monkey
HBS Monkey


Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 2630
Location: austin, tx

PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think i's getting funny. Keep going. Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
TheAngryJew
HBS Monkey
HBS Monkey


Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 5525
Location: Philadelphia

PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't instigate, YOU! We come to Texas once a year, you know! Razz
_________________
Scott Weinberg
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
laura
HBS Monkey
HBS Monkey


Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 2630
Location: austin, tx

PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're not the boss of me. I'll instigate all I want. Twisted Evil
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Oz
HBS Monkey
HBS Monkey


Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 5895
Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of lunatics... Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
laura
HBS Monkey
HBS Monkey


Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 2630
Location: austin, tx

PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

only half lunatic
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Slyder
HBS Monkey
HBS Monkey


Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 1525
Location: Ogden, Utah, USA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheAngryJew wrote:
Don't fucking put words in my mouth, pal.

Person A bitches because, gasp, TWO different versions are in the same DVD package.

Person B says "I prefer the director's cut".

Explain how that's the same thing.

Better yet, don't. This conversation is getting annoying.


2 diferent versions same DVD package does not make sense. Stick with either one of the two.

End of story.

Now open up and say AAAHHH!!!
_________________
Slyder
-----------------------------------
I saw more movies at Sundance than Ben Lyons did!!!

You can tell me that I've got no class, look around you and see who's laughing last - Rush
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger
David Cornelius
HBS Monkey
HBS Monkey


Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 3401
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's a matter of just a few minutes' difference in some Vin Diesel flick, then yes, having both in one package makes no sense. But we're talking hours here, and seeing how the two very different versions play out is not only a treat for fans, but a very useful tool in studying movies.

Or think of it this way: considering most of the people who buy Criterion titles are diehard fanatics who would want both versions anyway, why make them pay twice?

It's Criterion trying to give fans the most for their dollar, and me likee.

Dave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Oz
HBS Monkey
HBS Monkey


Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 5895
Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slyder, I don't really get why you think you're a shot at winning this debate. You quite simply spoke without thinking and now you're simply resorting to the most infantile arguments to back a losing case.

If there's only one version, a chunk of the viewing public that prefers the other version gets left out. "Why didn't they include the version I wanted? This sucks!"

Criterion, quite simply, doesn't do that with their releases. As has been said, Criterion likes to release the ultimate disc of any title they put out there, which means including all cuts that matter, all docos, trailers, interviews, etc. If there's something there you don't want, don't watch, but those that do want won't be disappointed.

I have the director's cut of Cinema Paradiso, a disc that also includes the original cut of the film, which is about 40 minutes shorter. I *like* that it has both versions. I honestly don't know which I prefer, but as someone who ranks the film in his top 5, I want to be able to see both without buying two DVDs, so I can judge for myself which I prefer, or even just know what both cuts are like because I'm a student of the artform.

Is that lunacy? I think not. But for those that think it is, there's always the 'fuck you, consumer, take your widescreen and piss off' version that only has the theatrical cut. Frankly, you're welcome to it - I specifically bought the new version because it had both cuts.

And I'm certain there are others like me when it comes to Fanny and Alexander. Now, take a breath, suck it up and say, "Yeah, okay, I didn't think before I posted. I'll let it go now."

There's a good boy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Slyder
HBS Monkey
HBS Monkey


Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 1525
Location: Ogden, Utah, USA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't post without thinking, ok?

I just don't see the point of having 2 fucking cuts for the same movie for me, it doesn't make sense whatsoever.

My only argument is this: The director who made the movie has a preferred cut, all directors do, but as we all know, studio execs deemed it too commercial and slice whatever minutes off it and releases it, then some time later that same director finally releases his own preferred cut of the film, this is the definitive cut that the director wanted to release originally, are you going to tell me that there are people that prefer the original version instead of the director's cut version? IF they are then they're stupid since they'll never appreciate the full scope of what the director was aiming at in his own cut.

Hence why I believe that the Criterion people should've stuck with Bergman's preffered cut (312) instead of including both versions, because including both versions doesn't make any sense and it's therefore ridiculous, since its aiming at the masses and not at Bergman's true intentions.

And furthermore I AM NOT speaking for myself, fuck me, fuck you and fuck everyone else, Criterion says that it restores the films ACCORDING TO THE DIRECTOR OR DIRECTORS OF SUCH FILMS. If Bergman's cut was the 312 version then they should ONLY release that version, fuck what the masses say, it's the "Director's" own cut, not the audiences.

Hence why I bitch about this. If you people don't agree with me, fine. Let's agree to disagree, but for me it's fucking pointless to have two versions of the same feature when the director's preferred version should've been more than enough.

The only exception to my rule would be Apocalypse Now since I think the Redux version is inferior to the original, but other than that I've seen several "Directors Cut " movies whom are vastly superior to the original.
_________________
Slyder
-----------------------------------
I saw more movies at Sundance than Ben Lyons did!!!

You can tell me that I've got no class, look around you and see who's laughing last - Rush
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger
David Cornelius
HBS Monkey
HBS Monkey


Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 3401
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, but (to keep this argument rambling) what about when directors like both versions of their films? (Thinking of Jackson and his LOTR variations, or Freidkin and his Exorcists.)

Also, on a completely different note, what if Criterion offered a long-cut only version, but at the same price? Which would you buy?

Maybe it's because I'm a completist, maybe it's because I would want to have as much choice in a movie that I love, but I just don't see why anyone would be happy with having less than they could have.

Dave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Post new topic   Reply to topic    eFilmCritic Forum Index -> DVD Talk All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group