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laura
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you're welcome for making this thread interesting.

; )
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

laura wrote:
but all you guys are doing is bashing Paris, which is not the same thing as bashing the judicial system at all.


But it's much more fun.
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Danielle Ophelia



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baby, I'm first to admit that our hallowed judicial system sucks like an open chest wound. I'm just not convinced that Paris Hilton is the best example with which to illustrate why. Ragging on her is part of a natural order: bird gotta fly, fish gotta swim, people gotta bash Paris.
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laura
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bash Paris on the right points. Smile
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Danielle Ophelia



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's no way for me to do that without bringing up points that have already been beaten near unto death.

However, her wealth is not an issue for me--she was born into money, which is no different from being born female or Polish or left-handed. It's not something you choose (though it's a choice most of us wouldn't mind having), so it's got nothing to do with that. Swear to Christ. Overall, it's more about how her polarized insecurity and egotism reportedly affect people who are supposed to be her friends.

Then again, at this point I don't have much sympathy for anyone who would seek out her friendship in the first place.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

David Cornelius wrote:

Finally - stole this from a friend's blog, which is much better than my own joke:




Dave, where did you get that? I want to quote it and yours and credit them properly.
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David Cornelius
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My pal Terry posted it on his Live Journal here. He credits it only as "Now appearing all over your internet," so I'm not sure where he got it. Feel free to ask him.
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UDM
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laura, Little Miss Hilton is not in jail for being a brainless, obnoxious slut. She's in jail for being a brainless, obnoxious slut who got a DUI, then was caught twice driving with a suspended license, the last time as she was driving double the speed limit after dark with no headlights. 45 days in jail is supposed to be cruel and unusual punishment? I'm sure she's genuinely traumatized over having her Ipod taken away, but I'm having trouble finding sympathy at this moment.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

David Cornelius wrote:
Finally - stole this from a friend's blog, which is much better than my own joke:


Nothing, repeat, nothing is better than "Noooo they be stealin my special treatment." That just made me shit. I say again, lolparis for the win.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UDM wrote:
Laura, Little Miss Hilton is not in jail for being a brainless, obnoxious slut. She's in jail for being a brainless, obnoxious slut who got a DUI, then was caught twice driving with a suspended license, the last time as she was driving double the speed limit after dark with no headlights. 45 days in jail is supposed to be cruel and unusual punishment? I'm sure she's genuinely traumatized over having her Ipod taken away, but I'm having trouble finding sympathy at this moment.

UDM


Thanks for explaining to me what has been reported in the news 7,000 times and not listening at all to any of what I've actually written and posted on this thread! Woopty dooo!!! AGAIN: THIS NOT A DEBATE ABOUT WHAT WE THINK IS UNACCEPTABLE OR ACCEPTABLE PUNISHMENT FOR HILTON. THIS IS A DEBATE ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT PARIS WAS GIVEN FAVORABLE TREATMENT, WHICH WE NOW ALL FINALLY ADMIT IS HIGHLY ARGUABLE, ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT SHE'S SPENDING A BIGGER PERCENTAGE OF HER SENTENCE IN JAIL THAN ALL OF SHERIFF'S OTHER INMATES. Stop being so fucking patronizing, and just actually LISTEN to what I'm SAYING. It's really not that hard!!!!! How many times do I have to repeat myself?!?!?! Agh.
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petersob
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who the fuck is Paris Hilton?
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f*r*o*s*t*y
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

laura wrote:
Thanks for explaining to me what has been reported in the news 7,000 times and not listening at all to any of what I've actually written and posted on this thread! Woopty dooo!!! AGAIN: THIS NOT A DEBATE ABOUT WHAT WE THINK IS UNACCEPTABLE OR ACCEPTABLE PUNISHMENT FOR HILTON. THIS IS A DEBATE ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT PARIS WAS GIVEN FAVORABLE TREATMENT, WHICH WE NOW ALL FINALLY ADMIT IS HIGHLY ARGUABLE, ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT SHE'S SPENDING A BIGGER PERCENTAGE OF HER SENTENCE IN JAIL THAN ALL OF SHERIFF'S OTHER INMATES. Stop being so fucking patronizing, and just actually LISTEN to what I'm SAYING. It's really not that hard!!!!! How many times do I have to repeat myself?!?!?! Agh.


You said you wanted a "debate," people are talking and listening to what you are saying, even though they're not necessarily agreeing with you... It sounds like you just want people to agree with you.

If she wasn't given any type of special treatment at all, then why didn't the Sheriff just say, "This is how I treat all of my inmates, felons or not, check out the statistics?" Instead, the official party line was, "She had a psychological illness... I mean, a medical illness..." That speaks volumes. Also, on the sentencing document the judge put "NO ELECTRONIC MONITORING".

Her grandfather contributed to Sheriff Baca's campaign. Do you think he wouldn't be a little sweet to her?
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sporkgirl
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

laura wrote:
It's amazing how republican everyone becomes when they're jealous of another person's wealth and luxuries.


"jealous"

yeah... ok

she received completely unjust favorable treatment.

it's like a fact or something. i'm jealous of THAT, i suppose. that's about it.

laura wrote:
Uh, yeah, sitting in a cell ALL BY YOURSELF for 23 hours out of the day really is so incredibly awesome. Special, maybe? Necessary, yes.


that sounds like every one of my days off. my precious, adored days off. and no one brings me my dinner.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sporkgirl wrote:
laura wrote:
It's amazing how republican everyone becomes when they're jealous of another person's wealth and luxuries.


"jealous"

yeah... ok


UR JUS' JELLUS! HATAS!
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Rob Gonsalves
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

f*r*o*s*t*y wrote:
UR JUS' JELLUS! HATAS!


I could've lived the whole rest of my life without seeing that.

That disturbed me more than anything in Hostel: Part II.
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Danielle Ophelia



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great. Paris Hilton's fucking herpes-infested meat purse--and it's staring at me. *Sics my icon on putrid photo*

"Man, that thing looks like it's been pounded more than a cheap steak!"

LOOKS LIKE?!
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

laura wrote:
I didn't see that question, must have scrolled over it. And sure.


ok, but you still didn't give any statistics to back up your statement. the article you posted claims that Baca routinely releases people early, regardless of the crime for which they're convicted. your claim was that paris's sentence was heavier than "almost every person who's committed a similar offense." you seem pretty sure of that, but so far i haven't seen anything to either confirm or dispute that.

you also have stated that the judge tried to make an example of her. what leads you to that conclusion?

how do you know that:

Rob Gonsalves wrote:
The judge is making an example of the sheriff, not Hilton.


isn't the case, instead? in fact, to me, that seems much more likely, as most judges don't like to see their authority usurped. sure, the sheriff may routinely release people early in violation of judges' orders, but in this case, there's a shitload of media attention, so the judge wants to make sure his sentence sticks here.

Quote:

House arrest isn't determined by the square footage of your house.


says who? what is it determined by? the judge specifically said that she wasn't to be put under house arrest. i'm sure the fact that placing her under house arrest is hardly punishment factored into that decision.

Quote:

And considering she drove on a suspended license and is spending more of a percent of her sentence than someone who's committed a felon, then she most definitely did not get favorable treatment.


as others have stated, it's not that just she was driving on a suspended license. it's that she got a DUI, and then was caught driving on two separate occasions.

what's the standard punishment for DUI in california? i don't know. again, you haven't provided any concrete statistics.
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Kand El
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the last Ben, here's the CA law- I've skipped first offense as Paris did Likewise, and we've moved onward and upward where the prize values double!

SECOND OFFENSE:
Two options, both carrying a fine of $390 to $1000, plus either:

(A) 10 days to 1 year in jail and an 18-month license suspension; or
(B) 48 hours to 1 years in jail, an 18-month or 30-month alcohol/drug program, and a license restriction allowing driving only for work and alcohol/drug program for the duration of the program. However, license shall be suspended for 18 months if the offense occurred in a vehicle which requires a class 1, 2, A, or B license. Installation of interlocking device for 18 months.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THIRD OFFENSE:

120 days to 1 year in jail, $390 to $1000 fine, a 3-year license revocation, and an 18-month alcohol/drug program if you have not completed one before.

Here's the full range of DUI law for the state:

http://www.california-drunkdriving.org/laws.html

As to the statistics concerning how the Sheriff runs his jail, that might be a bit trickier to track down. Suffice to say, previous posters had it right- the Sheriff was seconds away from contempt in the courtroom- now did the judge want stiffer penalties imposed due to the identity of the offender? I have to say yes. Are we any safer with Paris in prison? No, but consider the larger picture where I saw this incident as a stepping stone to another California riot then next time some non-celeb gets the book thrown at him.

By the by, the Sheriff is an elected post there, yes? Was this not the sheriff involved in the Mel Gibson DUI as well? There's his constituency to think about... And I'm sure the judge thought about that- the buck stops here.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kand El wrote:
For the last Ben, here's the CA law- I've skipped first offense as Paris did Likewise, and we've moved onward and upward where the prize values double!


thanks. i'm more interested in what sentences are actually imposed, though.


Quote:

As to the statistics concerning how the Sheriff runs his jail, that might be a bit trickier to track down. Suffice to say, previous posters had it right- the Sheriff was seconds away from contempt in the courtroom- now did the judge want stiffer penalties imposed due to the identity of the offender? I have to say yes. Are we any safer with Paris in prison? No, but consider the larger picture where I saw this incident as a stepping stone to another California riot then next time some non-celeb gets the book thrown at him.

By the by, the Sheriff is an elected post there, yes? Was this not the sheriff involved in the Mel Gibson DUI as well? There's his constituency to think about... And I'm sure the judge thought about that- the buck stops here.


yes, and yes.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

f*r*o*s*t*y wrote:
laura wrote:
Thanks for explaining to me what has been reported in the news 7,000 times and not listening at all to any of what I've actually written and posted on this thread! Woopty dooo!!! AGAIN: THIS NOT A DEBATE ABOUT WHAT WE THINK IS UNACCEPTABLE OR ACCEPTABLE PUNISHMENT FOR HILTON. THIS IS A DEBATE ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT PARIS WAS GIVEN FAVORABLE TREATMENT, WHICH WE NOW ALL FINALLY ADMIT IS HIGHLY ARGUABLE, ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT SHE'S SPENDING A BIGGER PERCENTAGE OF HER SENTENCE IN JAIL THAN ALL OF SHERIFF'S OTHER INMATES. Stop being so fucking patronizing, and just actually LISTEN to what I'm SAYING. It's really not that hard!!!!! How many times do I have to repeat myself?!?!?! Agh.


You said you wanted a "debate," people are talking and listening to what you are saying, even though they're not necessarily agreeing with you... It sounds like you just want people to agree with you.

If she wasn't given any type of special treatment at all, then why didn't the Sheriff just say, "This is how I treat all of my inmates, felons or not, check out the statistics?" Instead, the official party line was, "She had a psychological illness... I mean, a medical illness..." That speaks volumes. Also, on the sentencing document the judge put "NO ELECTRONIC MONITORING".

Her grandfather contributed to Sheriff Baca's campaign. Do you think he wouldn't be a little sweet to her?


That IS what he said, overcrowding was a factor... the fact that he thought he had to use a medical excuse to get her out just illuminates MORE of why he thought he couldn't treat Paris in the same regular fashion as everyone else.

And I'm not telling people to agree with me. I'm telling people to stop misinterpreting what I'm saying and then arguing about something I'm NOT SAYING, FOR THE 100 MILLIONTH TIME. I'm totally fine with a debate, but people keep saying I'm saying A when I'm not even CONCERNED with A. It's soo amazingly annoying.

And yes, I think when someone hates someone they don't even know who's done absolutely nothing to them personally to the point where they want them to suffer, that must stem from some kind of jealousy. That's just my opinion. Jealous of Paris and her STDs? No. Jealous of the fact that she's richer than you and gets to do whatever the fuck she wants? Maybe.


And Ben...
-Good point, I'd have to track down the statistics, that's just what I've heard overwhelmingly from even all the anti-Paris pundits, that the sentence was excessive. Which implies to me the Judge is making an example of her. I'd like to look it up, but I don't know how to look up La-specific sentencing stats. But the fact that no one has confirmed or disputed that makes my point even more obvious: people are assuming she got favorable treatment for absolutely NO REASON.
-I do think it's more accurate to say the judge is making an example of the sheriff by proxy.
-Well, I guess I don't actually know how house arrest is determined. Haha.

-You too, Ben??? People, stop explaining to me what she got in trouble for. I AM AWARE OF THIS. My opinion on what the appropriate "punishment" for an offense like that (if jail really is meant to be a punishment that is, which is arguable) is still hazy... I don't know enough about it. I'm reacting to people's insistence that Paris was given better treatment than others in her position, and that's just baseless. That's what THIS ENTIRE THREAD WAS ABOUT AND PEOPLE JUST KEEP OBSESSING OVER WHETHER OR NOT PARIS GOT A FAIR DEAL, IN THE SENSE OF UNIVERSAL MORAL JUSTICE. I've never ever once made an opinion on that, so why is everyone disagreeing with me along those lines?!?! Listen to what I'm saying people !!!!! Egads, I feel like I'm repeating myself over and over and over and over again.
-Sorry my statistics aren't concrete. I'm giving the only information that's been available, which points to Paris getting typical treatment. Perhaps that's not the case, but if people have come to that conclusion, they've just been lucky... cuz absolutely none of the available stats/info has pointed to that.
-But yes, sentences imposed is the only thing really of concern here.
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laura
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

repeat arlijtleijre ignore this.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

laura wrote:
From Digg, not sure the source:
Paris Hilton's billionaire grandfather donated money to the election campaign of the sheriff who released the 26-year-old from jail, it was revealed yesterday.

(though apparently this is all hearsay)

Definitely throws a twist in there, though it doesn't really change anything I've said all along. All the LA info from the sheriff, which has not been denied by the judge or anyone, says if she was a normal person, she would not be in jail right now. That's the bottom line.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh and to elaborate, the sheriff was only given like 1000, haha, so never mind, this kind of is irrelevant now. : )
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a digg reader's take, better than I can say it:

I wish people would get their facts straight before posting something like this. 1. The donation was for $1000 which is the legal maximum in the State of California. 2. The Judge, in a political game of chicken with the Sheriff, wrote on her detention order that no early release or electronic monitoring was to be done. The jails in California are extremely overcrowded. In similar cases to Ms. Hilton's people are released after serving 2-5 days of their sentences and then released due to overcrowding. The Judge's orders prevented that, so the Sheriff did the only thing he could do, which is release her on a medical reason. The medical evidence used to release her was presented by the Lynwood Jail Medical staff and not her personal psychiatrist.

I am no fan of Ms. Hilton, but she is being used as a political pawn in a pissing contest between this judge and the Sheriff. She is being punished much more extremely DUE to her celebrity. Any other person, you or me, would have been sentenced, done our 3-5 days and then had the rest of our sentence converted to community service picking up trash on the side of the highway. That is what most people don't understand and it is a shame they are taking their frustrations out on Ms. Hilton rather than on the Judge and the Sheriff who can't seem to get along.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First off, a fun link:

"I used to act dumb. ... That act is no longer cute," ABC quoted Hilton as saying.

I have no words.

Moving on to a broken system, and away for a sec from Hilton... Just how fucked are we as a society when Scooter Libby doesn't have to spend a minute in prison until AFTER all his appeals run through the courts, while the poor kid in this case isn't allowed out even though the case was thrown out?

Grumble.
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